Welcome to The ONE Group's Podcast! We believe that every professional has a great story to tell, which is why we have set up TOGCast to share successful stories and top tips on how candidates and clients got to where they are today.
On this episode, we are joined by Bogdan Dumitrescu and Siân Cox, who have shared their insights and tips on the 4-day working week, detailing a global overview with new evidence from the UK regarding the pilot program.
If you’re looking for advice on how to launch the 4-day working week, email info@theonegroup.co.uk and one of our recruitment specialists will be in touch.
If you would like to be our next guest speaker, host or ask us a question, please email us at marketing@theonegroup.co.uk
Hosted by Leanne Davidson-Town and Producer Bex.
If you would like to be our next guest speaker, host or ask us a question, please email us at marketing@theonegroup.co.uk
Hosted by Leanne Davidson-Town and Producer Bex.
Welcome to The ONE Group's Podcast! We believe that every professional has a great story to tell, which is why we have set up TOGCast to share successful stories and top tips on how candidates and clients got to where they are today.
On this episode, we are joined by Bogdan Dumitrescu and Siân Cox, who have shared their insights and tips on the 4-day working week, detailing a global overview with new evidence from the UK regarding the pilot program.
If you’re looking for advice on how to launch the 4-day working week, email info@theonegroup.co.uk and one of our recruitment specialists will be in touch.
If you would like to be our next guest speaker, host or ask us a question, please email us at marketing@theonegroup.co.uk
Hosted by Leanne Davidson-Town and Producer Bex.
If you would like to be our next guest speaker, host or ask us a question, please email us at marketing@theonegroup.co.uk
Hosted by Leanne Davidson-Town and Producer Bex.
Let's start with the research team who
was involved in this pilot so obviously
there was a there was a very large team
involved in in getting this project set
up and the lack of advisor for the
government and telling them how to kind
of set up how to talk to the businesses
what things to expect and so on but
there was one particular team of
researchers and professors that have
been put in charge of collating all of
this data and all of this information
across all the trials and then
transforming that into actual insights
that will help determine if this was a
success success if this was you know
an exercise productivity it was quite
the opposite so part of the team was the
collaboration between the College of
Boston and the University College of
Dublin and we had the professor Juliet
Shore Professor one fan and golingoo
from Boston as well as Professor Orla
Kelly from University College of Dublin
wow so lots of people involved so what
were the results of this trial then so
there was um obviously a massive amount
of data around this
basically we're looking at
2022 as the baseline here for this
obviously there have been trials
happening for years now but 2022 was the
year when the UK actually put this into
place and invited a number of
companies to kind of do this and we had
61 companies across the UK close to 3
000 people working on this
and kind of actually this was
these were employees they were they were
involved with this
basically the majority easily continued
with this and either have put this as a
permanent fixture within the business or
have implemented let's say a sixth one
six months to one year rolling
kind of schedule and uh basically 92
percent of the companies have continued
with this and have have seen a lot of
success
these trials have been happening for
years now so it's not a new thing
but however 2022 was the year where
it actually became a thing and the UK
the UK government actually appointed 61
companies in close to about 3 000
employees and brought them into this
project to see to see like what it would
be like if we did it for if we
implemented a four-day working week yeah
yeah exactly exactly and basically the
ratings and all the the scores basically
were fantastic so most of the companies
have rated their overall experience
about 8.3 out of 10. that's great
92 of those companies have actually
continued and have turned this into a
fixed permanent fixture within that
company or at the very least a kind
yearly let's say a year Rolling
rolling fixture
but even with the clients I've spoken
to that have turned into a yearly
rolling fixture they said this isn't to
deter people from thinking oh we might
take it away someday it's just in case
things do go wrong and things sometimes
can go wrong but I think the
overwhelming success that this project
has seen last year I think this will
mean this will be a permanent picture
across many companies and I think many
other companies start seeing the
benefits of this and start implementing
this and I think Sean you spoke to one
of your clients recently yeah so you
know a couple of our clients have
started kind of putting this initiative
together and one of the clients we spoke
to we actually had a teams call with
them quite recently and they were kind
of going through the benefits the
barriers they've kind of come up against
but actually I'd say you know 90 of what
they said was extremely positive when it
came to you know everything about around
the four day working week and they had a
few barriers I think certain teams it
can be a bit of a struggle depends on
the job that you do you know as to
whether it will work for you and what
like a customer facing team yeah so a
customer facing team but they actually
managed to work around this by making it
like a more of a rototype system so they
still managed to get a four-day working
way but it's just that you know the
first half of the team will do the first
part of the week the second half team of
the second part of the week so sometimes
they've got Monday off sometimes they'll
get a Friday off but they kind of work
it around so even though your job might
not be suitable for it there clearly is
kind of work around for it and I think
you know the more companies that do this
the more kind of ideas will get kind of
bouncing around and whatnot but yeah
I mean everything they said was
extremely positive you know they've got
a lot of good feedback there's always
going to be people that are like oh you
know it's not for me it's not for me or
whatever like that but you know across
the board I mean they said pretty much
everyone was on board with it they
trialled it for was it six months so
they did two different trials yeah last
year so they did one in the summer which
unfortunately didn't didn't get a lot of
success or a lot of good insights out of
it because of annual leave all those and
things like that okay so I said okay we
don't wanna we don't want to mess this
up and we don't want to come up with the
wrong data so let's do it again over a
larger period of time when more people
are in the office and things like that
so they've done it actually twice and
they just they just loved it and what I
found interesting was that it was coming
from the top down because one of my
biggest concerns with this was also you
have the managers that like you know
Batman seats and stuff like that so how
are they dealing with this and I
actually asked this question to a few of
my clients and it all relates against
the statistics of this project which are
mainly around the increased productivity
and revenue so revenue across the
board has has risen to an average
about 1.4 percent
wow so there was an increase yes wow
okay and that was the main reason for
actually doing it they were really kind
of you know a lot of companies are
really struggling like what benefits can
we offer you know what can we offer our
people that's different
and for them that was a really big
driving point was their recruitment kind
of Drive they can then you know that's a
massive benefit that a lot of companies
don't offer or can't offer you know for
them that was so important because they
were like okay you know we've got all of
these benefits already but actually this
is an added benefit on top you know it's
it's so important for a lot of people
and when you when you present these
facts with the to the man just
leadership teams to the CEOs and all
that there's no there's no kind of
refuting this and they said all the
clients I spoken to they said top down
from the CEO down everyone was happy wow
let's be honest everyone wants happy
people to come into work people aren't
stressed about you know getting their
getting their errands done on a Saturday
or Sunday when they want to relax and
things like that so that extra day gives
so much they were almost selling it as
like a a self day sort of thing you know
when do you have time to car mot when do
you have time to do all your chores and
with that you get two days of the week
well most people on their kind of money
to Friday get two days at the weekend
you know that's two days one day let's
say you spend doing all your chores and
all the your car mot yeah you know
you're shopping your housework all of
that stuff that leaves you into only one
day to actually enjoy so they a lot of
them they use it only another person was
saying that they're using it to do a
cipd so they're using it to learn a
complete other kind of you know when
would you have time to do that whether
on a full-time working week it's very
difficult
that will help her in the current room
yeah of course and a couple of them a
lot of people have mentioned on their
their day off they've actually still
been kind of meeting up and doing stuff
together but to work on their selves
within the business so like you say
training courses they've been doing
management courses but they're doing it
together because it's still you know
it's still a day that you should be
working you know they've been used to
working on that day so actually let's
get together let's do something that's
going to be productive for us and for
the business so there's you know it's
different size but you don't have to
obviously that's their choice to do that
but actually that's going to help them
the long run in their job when it comes
well it's going to make their job easier
in the long run as well so there's so
many options with it yeah and an
interesting thing that that I've seen
was that the employees have made a
compromise as well so it's not all about
taking out we're going to have an extra
day off and things like that they have
compromise like you said earlier I'm
gonna jump on my laptop on that Friday
and spend a couple of hours just to make
sure I'm on top of things just make sure
you don't yeah because let's be honest
everyone wanted at the end of this trial
they wanted this trial to be a success
so they kind of stepped it up a little
bit and it has shown in the in the stats
like they've some of the companies
compared the the trial period to sim to
the same period in in previous years and
some of them have found up to 35
increase in productivity and revenue
which is amazing so overall yeah it
seems to have been on the surface a
success and again it's not just success
from the employee employee's point of
view is from both sides having both
sides being being aligned to this is
is really impressive yeah and just
looking at this step
said that no that no money would make
them except to five days schedule in
their next job which is it's honestly
when we spoke to so a couple we've
obviously spoken to a couple of our
clients that do do it and they said
going from a five-day working week to go
into a four day working week so when
they did the trial obviously they went
back up to a five-day working week
and they said they were all exhausted
after the five-day working because they
were so used to doing four days for I
think was it three months they did it
four or something like that and so
yeah they did it four days for that
amount of time when they got back to
five days again apparently they got to
the Friday everyone was like oh my God
like completely dying off sort of thing
yeah but yeah I mean that just shows
they really appreciated then when they
went back onto the trial again back to
the four day working week it gave them
that extra bit of appreciation to be
like oh my God we can do it we clearly
can do it in these four days and we're
more productive for it I mean a lot of
them were saying how you know they've
slimmed down their meetings to you know
half an hour only essential meetings
because your time's more precious you
only have four days to do your job the
same amount of work yeah let's not waste
our time I'm doing meetings that are
irrelevant let's not waste our time you
know doing things that we don't need to
do we'll do what needs to happen you
know the absolute Essentials to then so
we can enjoy that day off you know and I
guess prioritising yes prioritising
productivity raises you know you can't
if you want to be off on that Friday
you've got to make sure all your work's
done yeah before that happens you know
so that's important what I've seen is a
lot of Managers from companies that I've
spoken to that have done this trial
I've actually implemented having a every
meeting that they book can be 30 minutes
an hour cut off 15 minutes at the end
every single minute every single year
every single minute so you have that 15
minute extra that day to do anything
else that adds up
somewhere it does add up so everyone's
kind of trying different things to see
what will work and there's obviously
going to be a few years but yeah
people are starting to do the right
things and it's showing in how the
employees are reacting to this so if we
look at the stats around the employee
satisfaction and the well-being and
things like that because at the end of
the day this is probably what it is
absolutely
so if we're looking at burnout over 70
percent have said that they've had a
decrease in Burnout and have reaching
that point in in their in their working
week or month
we had about half of them saying that
they've had a mental health improvement
around half of them has said It felt a
reduction in negative emotions coming
into work that anxiety I know I've come
to work some days and my my heart was
pulsing and things like that so not
having that and kind of coming into work
with the fresh
you know pair of eyes and a relaxed
mindset will help you help you be more
productive and come up with new ideas
and be more be more creative in your
work which ultimately leads to to
do you think that do you think that's
because people are more productive in
the four days that they're here so
they're getting more things done or do
you think it's because they're having
more time to relax probably a bit of
both let's be honest I mean the more
time you have to rest and recover the
more productive you're going to be the
more refreshed you're going to be like
when you've had a holiday for example
you I mean it deposit does depend on the
person some people come back a little
have the holiday blues and whatnot but
normally you feel a bit more refreshed
you can get your head straight back into
it you know it's it gives you time to
rest and recover before you have to get
straight back to work again you know I
think it's a bit of both let's say some
people use that extra day to work out or
do some exercise or anything like that
and that obviously helps yeah with so
many things like mental health fatigue
physical health and all that which
again goes into having a good mental
health and being able to kind of be
productive at work so yeah I think
overall having that extra days like you
said a mixture of trying to
perform better in those four days in a
more limited period of time but also be
more relaxed and able to do your work
better and more effectively so it's
given them a lot more help towards the
health and well-being and obviously
that's had an effect on their family
life as well I imagine because they're
spending more time at home absolutely so
we've got over 70 of the employees that
have been surveyed have said they have a
greater satisfaction
with their time
we're able to combine their work with
with kind of care responsibilities
which is also a lot of a lot of people
do have those responsibilities be child
parents or whatever
also a lot of them about 60 have said
it it was easier for them to combine
social life
so being able to kind of see their
friends more often and all of that
having that extra day bring you can see
all these things that kind of add up and
so many more things you can do
having having you know time to call your
your friends or someone that lives
far away you haven't seen in a while
again gives you that little yeah because
I guess you could do something to say
you didn't work on the Friday you could
do something on the Thursday night which
because you wouldn't normally do that
yeah of course absolutely absolutely so
was this trial only conducted in the UK
so no actually it was a global
initiative UK had the most com most
companies that signed up for this but
it actually worked across the UK U.S
Canada Australia New Zealand
so about
close to 100 companies in total across
those countries have have joined this
this trial about 3500 workers so
again across the board and all those
other companies and in countries
the trials were rated highly similar
kind of statistics and surveys from the
employees productivity going up business
performance scoring well Revenue going
up as well so it wasn't just isolated to
the UK this was a global thing and I'm
sure more and more companies will be
will be joining this jumping on the
Obama do you think do you think that's
the case I think so I mean when we have
asked our clients to already do the
four-day working week you know what are
the negatives here you know what have
you struggled with what are the barriers
they really struggle to come back to us
with any negatives you know you know
because what these guys that we've
spoken to have been doing is they've
been kind of like surveying their
workers kind of throughout
every Monday they were putting kind
of like surveys out to people and it
wasn't just about work it was about how
do you feel you know how's your mental
health how are your stress levels are
you feeling pressure because you've got
to do it in a short amount of time they
were really very thorough with their
questions they were asking I think
that's really important because you need
to find out is this working for us in
the way that we want it to you know is
this working for us for the reason that
we wanted to you know we want people to
be productive we want people to feel
like they can come to work and do the
things they need to do in the time frame
they've got because the worst thing is
running out of time all the time that
was one of the things they thought would
be a struggle but in actual fact when I
asked them what were the negatives they
kind of looked at each other like
once they'd kind of worked out the
teething problems you know because
obviously like there's some areas of a
business that really struggle with the
four day working with because of what
they have to do you know once they've
worked around those barriers and kind of
worked out different things for these
kind of teams they were like actually
the people who were doing the four-day
working week there was no negative you
know everyone was really happy to trial
it and you don't have to do it if you
don't want to do it as well you know
those people that are in these
businesses they don't have to work four
days if they don't want to they can
continue doing what they were doing
before is an option you don't not forced
to do it type of thing but I mean it
sounded like everyone was in for it I
mean I would be very in for it I
wouldn't say no I mean overall you know
we're looking at this from an employee's
perspective and how great it is for them
and things like that but again we're
looking at the stats and the companies
are benefiting from this and do not get
a good good positive impact on
businesses then you look at the climate
and the mental health and all this it
just brings about a wider positive
impact on the world rather than just
focusing oh they've got an extra day and
a lot of people do look at it simplistic
way but no actually it does have a
greater impact
it sounds like people really appreciate
having the four-day working week as well
because it sounds like from what we've
heard from both employees and from the
kind of you know the managers sort of
side of things people are working harder
because they're like well you know we've
been getting we've been giving a lot of
benefits here we've got all all these
lovely things why wouldn't we work hard
for a company who's going to you know
give us these benefits so actually
they've found you know there wasn't any
stats that had gone down was that
everything was more productive you know
more flexible for everyone everyone was
getting more stuff done the company was
earning more money they were retaining
more more staff as well that was their
main thing retention was really
difficult a lot of companies struggle
with retention especially in this day
and age when there's so many options
salaries are all the way up you know
there's a lot of important factors that
people look for in a job now and this
has massively helped them retain their
staff and that's important because
recruitment costs money of course it
does you know it takes time it costs
money it it's important it's a big big
part of the business you don't have the
right people there it's not going to go
well so yeah I mean retention is so
important and that's something that
they've found they've stuck with it's
gone really really well and it's
enticing more people want to actually
work for your company as well because as
soon as you put a four day working week
on a job advert oh my God you go from 10
applicants to 10 000 applicants you know
everyone's honesty is better than
putting a six figure salary it really is
it really is people find it because
money yes
yes important but actually your time you
know you're spending time with your
family you're spending time with your
friends you're spending time for you
that's more important to anyone that's
that there's no monetary value for that
that's your life you know and given
people that option to have it I think
it's one of the best things you can do
in a weird way it's a pandemic that kind
of set this set this trend out and
they showed people that you can be
productive by not necessarily because
let's be honest the five-day working
week this Monday the Friday I think it's
a 100 year old thing it's it's new thing
so it it's obviously not going to be
right all the time eventually it's going
to evolve into something better and so
on so we're looking at that kind of
evolution at this point where the
precipice of what's the next thing that
will help us we're at the point in in
you know with technology that we're at a
point where it can automate so many
things that I'm probably doing so let's
say 10 20 times more now than someone
in my position would have been doing 20
years ago just because of this
automation all these job boards all
these tools that we have at our disposal
why not use them to make our lives
easier exactly so um yeah I think it's
going in the right direction and like I
said I'm more than happy to be speaking
to leaders not only the employees that
love this and kind of oh I've been
loving doing this and I've gained so
much talking to leadership and the ctOS
and so on they're saying I like this I
want to put this you know if I move
on somewhere else I'm gonna try to
implement this because of these things
and it's factual it's all it's all
numbers on you know black and white at
the end of the day so no one can say
anything about it it's you know
increased revenue increase productivity
happiness retention which is a big thing
all these will lead to like I said a
positive kind of um you know or a
promising
song that's main thing is it has to
be done right as well you can't expect
it's just what you can't just jump into
it with all day working week and just
expect it to work do you think you
should do a trial first yeah it sounds
like that seems to be the best option
because
you know you could just jump straight
into it it might work out fabulous but I
think it needs to work for everyone and
I think the trials are what kind of give
people the appreciation when they do go
back to the five-day working week you go
oh wow this is very very different we
did this in four days when I'm doing it
in five why do we need to do this it
kind of gives you that that mindset of
we can do it so let's do it but the the
ease into it and how you go about it I
think is very important and that's
something that we can absolutely look
into more the more people do it the more
we'll see kind of oh this works really
well this works really well but I think
yeah it's got to be a slow ease into it
it's got to work for your company
because what will work for us might not
work for you know the next company here
you know Law Firm is going to be very
very different to a recruitment Agency
for example or a large firm exactly a
smaller business a bigger business it's
obviously going to work very very
different so it's got to work for you
you've got to find your kind of route
for how it works but I mean there's
going to be more and more and more of
this happening so there's gonna be more
that you can just kind of pull out yeah
they've tried this let's do that oh
they've tried this let's do that and I
think that's going to be a very
important part that don't give up on it
do it properly or like you said they
tried it in the summer and they realised
that it was the wrong turn yeah exactly
so how long was the trial so at first
they did over the summer for three
months and then they said oh that didn't
work out well so they started then from
September to December so basically three
months yeah September October November
yeah you can't count so four months they
said let's add another month to it four
months most people were in the office
at that point so they were able to well
actually the remote first company but
most people were working so they were
able to kind of get all the information
that they needed but like you said this
this will be popping up more and more
because if you look at Scandinavian
countries for example they've been doing
this for years we're behind really when
you look through the kind of global side
of it if you look at Spain now they've
implemented now
having all women have one day off per
month as a menstrual day off something
like that paid as well which is
incredible I think so small little
trials of small little actions are
happening around the world it will
ultimately lead to us being you know
more more happy and more kind of better
balance between life and work because at
the end of the day we're here for eight
eight hours a day we sleep for eight
hours and we have eight hours to do you
know whatever we want to do so it's a
big part of our life so one might as
well kind of make it more pleasant I
mean let's be honest before kind of the
pandemic hit and all of that a lot of
companies didn't do working from home or
couldn't offer it or anything like that
so it kind of gets to a point of you
know initially that was kind of
unimaginable I couldn't imagine working
in recruitment agency and working from
home it just didn't seem fabinable but
then when we were kind of forced to do
it it happened and now it's actually
probably more hybrid working and remote
working now than there is actually going
into the office so I kind of see this is
the same thing you know it's a few
companies are doing it a few people are
doing it four day working week it's
working really well I think it's going
to kind of hit and it's going to be a
boom I think eventually it's not going
to be a Monday to Friday anymore it's
going to be Monday to Thursday or
whatever but that will be the new norm
sort of thing and I hope it is because
it seems to be working I mean we've not
come across hardly any negative kind of
side to this
and the majority of the companies
that took part are going are going
forward with it yeah and will it be
monitored or are they just deciding that
they're going to deal with it and so
they've got the the companies I spoke to
have a at least one person in maybe the
data team or one of the backup back
office teams and things like they will
be monitoring this including all this
data even after the trial even once we
implemented because they do want to want
to make sure that it doesn't fall South
you know people don't don't fall back on
it and say oh now we're going to relax a
little bit they want to make sure this
does continue but it's again looking
promising I've spoke to some clients for
four months into into 2023 and they
said nothing's really changed we've had
it for four months now and it's it's
been going well so hopefully people
don't fall back obviously you're always
going to have those rotten eggs in the
company they'll be uh you know messing
things around but
seems to be a minority at the moment so
watch this space then
week may start to be implemented across
the UK sounds good to me I'll take it
if you have any last comments before we
we move on to our last task of the day
in all honesty I think it would be a
very very good thing if companies at
least tried in I think every company has
to try it yeah because you know don't be
wrong if you don't have a company that
I'm not interested in it you know for
example if you're a hairdressers I can't
see how that would be productive to do a
four-day working week you know obviously
it's business to business kind of
relative but when you're looking at
Office business office businesses
offices and general kind of you know
companies like that I can't see it being
a harm when you look at these statistics
you've got it written in black and white
there why would you not just try it try
it and see what happens if it doesn't
work out you can go back to the norm
it's not going to affect anything it's
fine but I think it's worth a shot and
hopefully my fingers are crossed that
it's going to become a thing Monday to
Thursday the new working week I'm in for
it absolutely
so just to add up on that because that's
you basically nailed it nailed on the
head we have all the tools available now
to make this happen yeah absolutely I
can help any company out there they want