The Perfect Recruitment Process (Part 1)

On this episode, we're diving into a two-part series on the perfect recruitment process; equipping you with the knowledge to enhance your recruitment practices and ensure a positive experience for all candidates.

Anne and Jen discuss the importance of the candidate journey, covering topics such as CVs, feedback, interviews, how to keep candidates engaged, maintaining effective communication and provide a seamless onboarding process.

This episodes includes tips for handling the influx of CVs, using agencies, setting criteria for job postings and the importance of timely responses to applicants. They also share insights on the ideal length and content of CVs and discuss the balance between thoroughness and efficiency in the interview stages.

Stay tuned for part two, where we'll cover onboarding, aftercare and offboarding processes.

If you would like to be our next guest speaker, host or ask us a question, please email us at hello@theonegroup.co.uk

Hosted by Leanne Davidson-Town and Producer Bex.

Transcript

Hello and welcome to todays podcast. I'm Leanne and we are doing a two part series on the perfect recruitment process. The first part will look at the candidate journey before they start, talk about CVs, feedback, interviews and authors. And the second part will be once they start onboarding, aftercare and off boarding, if that comes. So yeah, we basically want to talk about, you know, how to keep the camera engaged, communication throughout and how to provide the perfect onboarding process. So, hello, Anne. Jen. Hello. Hello again. Welcome back. So where would you like to start with the perfect recruitment process? Should we start with CVS? Yeah. Sounds like a good place to start. Always. So have you got any tips for, you know, clients that have put a job out there and all of a sudden they're going to CVS? And where do they start? How do they sift through them? It's a tough one. I would say you lose an agency and then you won't have that problem and had an eye about that. And luckily it is you know, we do get people saying to us, we should use you. We've had hundreds of applications through link to another the really good and that's where we are. Okay. I recently had someone saying, Jen, next time I'm coming to you about deal with all of these. So yeah, I can imagine for a hiring managers that's, that's a massive amount of it is it quite reckon that they'll get quite a few CVS over say like an average of about. I do they tend to have all depends on the role if it's a more for want of a better way of putting it generic role you are going to get multiple say CVS. If you're advertising for a remote role, you will be inundated with see these. So it really depends on how you're advertising the position and it's having certain criteria perhaps that are essential. So if you decide not to use us, which you you can put certain criteria on a job board and say this is essential, whether it's experience of a certain scientific process or in finance, a certain sort of software platform, you can if they don't have that, they can have an auto reject function. But the trouble is with that is it is very nameless and faceless. And the reason that I keep going back to using us, but the reason why use an agency is that we see past the CV, but for some roles and in some areas you will have multiple CVS sent. So I think you need to be very aware of how long you have enough time running. Don't have it running for too long because all say that can look as if a client is either desperate or hasn't found the right person. Maybe they'd been looking for ages. Perhaps they cut, somebody leave and it can imply that somebody at the company is perhaps not operating their CV process quite as slickly. I think that's led as they should do. So I wouldn't leave a job advertised for too long. If you get multiple CVS, close it down quickly. Okay. So a couple of questions there. Firstly, should clients be replying to every CV they get to to meet the applicant, know that their application has been received? It is nice to have an acknowledgment of some sort. And again, as John said about me a little bit faceless, just having an automated response in as a minimum, it's better than nothing. It's also giving the candidate some kind of expectation when they can expect to hear back. You know, if that's a week or or ten days or a couple of days, it's just a thank you very much. It's all part of the candidate experience that would. Yes. Do that as a minimum. And I guess I could also say, if you don't hear back, unfortunately, you've been unsuccessful. And then they don't need to ask terribly that feedback if the applicant is unsuccessful. And the second thing is that if they do have a lot of CV's to sift through going on the point you said earlier on, would you say that the main thing that's important about that job? Well, that's what they used to see through the CVS, to only pull out that criteria that they have that skillset or they have that experience. If they're faced with that many say hundreds of CVS, which you hear of happening, then they are going to have to have some hard and fast rules that they will stick by and say this person hasn't got some experience. So unfortunately, they're on the dogpile. Obviously, these are theoretical piles these days. And but I think that somebody has to have certain ways of using the words sifting gum things. But there is a danger that you miss out on the perfect person because to my mind, not having SAP as an example isn't necessarily going to mean they can't learn it. And somebody's proclivity to learn a system is something that you will be able to establish when you have that conversation. So the sifting through CVS is the first stage of probably a three stage process at least. So if you're going through 100 CVS and you say, right, 330 people have got sat 70 people, have they 70 people pan for penny you'll have rejected good ten people who are really, really good candidates who on the face of it don't have what they supposedly need. But also do candidates put everything on their CV that they supposedly have in their repertoire now? Well, that's another question. How long should the TV be if candidates might have loads of experience and skill sets and, you know, be versed in lots of software, but only have a small space and they're not sure what to add on it. So it's I mean this sort of CVS that and would. Reid and this the silver I would really be in the in the scientific team were going to be very, very different. I mean, mind my candidacy, these are often six, seven pages long because you've got publications on there and things like that. So they're generally going to be a lot longer and the two page saves a bit of an old, old white tie. Yeah, I think I'd say that. So yeah, there's actually a story behind that when back in the olden days, probably even before all time, and when we used to have to fax CVS across to clients, the reason for the for the two sides of A4 paper was actually because you were everybody only hoping that your your client had a couple of pieces of paper and a fax machine and that actually be able to print off the the CV. But now obviously we've got it all digitally. That stuff's not an issue anymore. So I would say to candidates, you know, in terms of getting all of those skills, Ed, I would rather read a four or five page CV than having one which has been condensed or scanned into this little space. It's so difficult to read and such a tiny little quote. Oh, that's very good feedback, actually, for anyone out there that has been trying to squeeze everything in. So what about the timing for the CV stage then? Because if you have got a hundred CVS and you're you've closed off the outfit, how long do you wait to go back to these applicants from when you've when they've actually first applied? I wherever possible, I would never wait until a closing date. If you've got people who look really good. Act on them now. Yes. There's a closing date for a reason because you have to have a cutoff point. But just because somebody has applied and they've got what appears to be the perfect CV, don't wait two weeks because the closing dates the 30th of March. Speak to them on the 15th of March. Say, don't wait until you get all the applicants. 300 have got the tickets and the good people. There's a very good chance those people would have gone from the market. And also, there's nothing wrong with showing that you actually already engaged with that person and say yes before the closing date. But your CV stood out so much that we didn't want to wait. And we wanted to say to you, we really like your details. We'd like to get you booked in for a first stage interview. I think people are still what draw people to businesses and having that interaction. Not doing it. And an email. Not using an automated platform where at all possible makes all the difference. And if that candidate's got a couple of processes going on but they've had a really good first call with somebody who says we two weeks early, but we love your CV. We really want to show you that we want to have you as part of our process. That person may say, Well, okay, I've got two interviews, but I still will wait and see what the one great they've got to say because they've gone above and beyond and actually called me before the technical closing date. Yeah. So don't don't sit around. Definitely not it in there early. So is that the case for many clients, do you think do you think some clients have like a process where they have to wait until the review stage after. Yes. So you say maybe try and be flexible as possible and scrap the process if there are certain places where it is required. In the public sector, they often have closing dates. They have to stick to full and equal opportunities. But even then, if possible, sometimes a client will come back to me and say, Look, we can't officially do anything until the end of the month, but we know that we won't see this person and I can have an off the record conversation with them and say, Please bear with us, because this is going to be a positive outcome. But most companies put the closing date on because they want to have okay, we want to be able to look at everybody by the end of March. But if you've been inundated with 100 saves, you don't need that 30th of March closing day just to see people react to that and speak to the good people Tell the people that aren't suitable. Thank you. But no, don't keep behind. Don't keep people hanging on because you are playing with people's lives to some extent, albeit you set out, you'll stall. It doesn't do any harm to overachieve. We are led by hiring managers and when they can and look at sea bass and often they have very, very busy day jobs, which is not always easy getting them to review CVS as quickly as we'd lot intake, or of course candidates applying directly and they go into that same queue as well and it does slow down the process and sometimes. So feedback then on see these if there isn't the automated. An email that says if you don't hear back, you've been unsuccessful. What what's your advice there then for giving people feedback on their CV's, how to do it? You said about cool n, would you call people to tell them they haven't been successful? In an ideal world, you would do that. But in real life face of the hundred applications, that's not possible. But there's nothing wrong with an automated email. Everybody can spot an automated email, so you've got the acknowledgment of application. But there is nothing wrong with having another email that you can send out, which is a tad more personalized, which can say Thank you so much, not just thank you for your interest. I'm focusing on this occasion. You, you can invite people to ask for individual feedback, but you can't promise that you're going to do it. But you have to realize that people's time is precious in all walks of life, whether it's on the receiving end of the CVS or the candidate side of it, because many a time a candidate sends me their CV, I submit it to the client. And then when it comes to the client saying they want to see that candidate, the candidate never comes back to me because they found something saying both sides of the fence. But if you can send something that's slightly less automated and robotic that goes down the tree, the people are aware that in this day and age we are in a digital well. We know where it usually is. Notification and receipt. So thank you. But no, but the biggest bugbear I see of of candidates these days is that they get no acknowledgment. Yeah. So they'll have the acknowledgment that they've received the application, but thereafter nothing. Or even worse, they had a first stage screening with the talent team or something, and then they've never been told that they haven't been progressed to the next stage. Now that if you go into that first stage screening process, you should always have a personalized email at the very least saying Thank you on this occasion. We're not going to be progressing your details further. If there is constructive feedback as to why, then brilliant. But you cannot leave somebody after having that engagement with the business directly thinking, well, I guess three weeks later I'm not of interest to them because that damages the brand of the business and the individuals they've been interacting with very badly. And people talk and say with that lens we move on to the next stage of the process, which is entities say you talked about the screening. I would that course as a first stage interview peer comes out right near the end. But it is great if you are using an agency because we can really act as an extension of the business and and really ask those questions and get get them out of the first interview stage because we're doing that. You know, we know what the company's culture is like. We know the important things. It's not just about skills. It's about fitting in with the tape. And we can we can sort that out because we have got that connection with with the organization. And we know ultimately what the important things are. So again, is it, Stephanie, shortening the interview process? So would you say the first stage then, would that be telephone teams online rather than face to face? Initially, two things is the most popular. Telephone interviews are really hard because you've got no tangibility in the person. You can't see them. We can't judge their reactions. You can't pick up on body language. And whilst nothing takes the place of a face to face, in my opinion, a team's meeting is a good way of a halfway house because people are time strapped. More and more people are back in the offices full time, if not part time. And it's not. You can't just go for a meeting and take a half day off without drawing attention to more, just not being able to have the time out. A teams meeting is that middle ground where you can go in a lunch break, finished early or you can start early and and it gives you that feeling of, do I vibe with this person? Have I got the right social skills? I've got one client who has the first stage, which is a team's purely with the individual, but that person is the lifeblood of the business, so they are literally fading out. See whether or not their ethos matches the candidate's ethos and what their plans are match what the candidate wants. And then they have the hiring manager, which is also on teams. But that's a much more technical meeting where it's kind of like, Yeah, how do you do their time? Do you do that? And then the final stage is much more of a. Hi, how are you? This is us. This is what we want. G think we need to think your us or her and that sort of thing where that is what people never a long way away. And I deal with candidates who are in other countries so many of the entities. Sometimes stations are overtaking and so serve and so doing it for practical reasons as well. You know, I'm not going to. It's going to be very difficult to get this person down from Edinburgh to meet you. So let's have a really comprehensive, robust interview where we we getting a lot of the stuff covered that normally we might have brought into a second interview site because we know about a direct this person down all the way from Edinburgh and if we're not sure that they are quite likely going to be a good fit for the business. And so I think that's that's a very an interesting thing to to look out with with where your candidate is and how easy it is for them to candid interview as well. So would you say three stages is the average for an interview to take yet? But I mean I've had as an about you but I've I've had candidates before sometimes six separate interviews which is to be overkill and when we can't have certain people there at the same time on teams calls or in person, and then it's all we want you to meet this person is we that per yes so for now and appreciate a lot of people have to be involved with the interview stages but we're making it very, very hard to the candidates when we start and taking it past three into B. So yeah, so that's an interesting point then. So you've both sort of touched on it. Who do you invite to these two interviews then? Do you have that top person and the hiring manager? Do you invite the team so they can get advisors who are going to be working with you? Usually I find and the example I gave earlier, that tends to be more h.r. And the hiring manager in the first stage and then the second stage, if it is a two stage process, would be the hiring manager and perhaps their boss or maybe a C-suite person. But I think it's becoming more prevalent these days for team mates just to go and say hi. I had a process recently where the it was first stage on team, second stage in the office had the senior management team doing the first part of the second stage and then met with a couple of the peers in the team and that was just in a canteen environment, so a bit more relaxed, but they'd done the main part in the first interview. The second part was to make sure that it still meshed, but then the meeting of the team was just it more also, not only for the team, but for them to think, Can I work with these people from all these assorted people I could see myself with 37 and a half hours a week? Yeah, I like that approach and the face to face made it so much more relaxed because if you are meeting the team on teams, it's actually quite intimidating I think, because you just you can't pick up on body language. And if somebody sat like that, I sit like this because it's kind of comfortable. So not because I'm being defensive, but if you see somebody like that one team, see you be thinking, oh gosh, they don't see out. And yeah, yeah. A lot of the interviews that I get arranged, I mean, they're for people that are going to go work in labs. So in most cases they're going to get a lap tool where they probably getting taken round by technicians and things like that, which gives that the candidate and obviously the rest of the team to really engage on a more personal level. But it's it's a lot easier. Just have a walk around and all. What's that over there? And and same as some of the office interviews. I mean then when we've interviewed people coming into our office saying, Oh, look, we've got a dog over here and come on, do you like dogs? And just showing a little bit more of what the vibe is like. And I've actually got one client here and they're not based on a on a bus route. So they'd very, very kindly volunteer to go and pick up candidates from the local rail station, or they'll arrange attacks that they can't, but they try to pick them up and get them and left. And I always say to candidates, this is a really nice opportunity for you to have a little bit more of a relaxed part of the interview and let your real personality come out. So yeah, I think, I think that's really nice when yeah. When clients are able to, to help out and give that personal side and see another dimension as a candidate. But that's why people are going to pick that business over another business and you'll be the interpersonal fit. And if they don't like it, it's not casting aspersions on the business. It's just maybe it's just not the right gel. Yeah, whatever. But it's very rare when you have a meet the team situation. The people we go into that are in absolute, oh my gosh. Well, me doing a similar scenario a bit more. It's and is actually rare and very awkward if people do say after they've had that. Now it's not for me it has happened. Yeah but timing then for entry stage, whether it's one, two or potentially three, you know, while we're talking a week in between days, like how long should we be? As quick as possible. Quick as you can yet. Okay. So as quick as you can. And what about in between different candidates? How many candidates should you interview? First stage, second stage? And what's the you know, because obviously availability is a factor here. So maybe candidate eight of 18 on Monday becomes a be the available until Friday. So candidates got to wait until Friday to say what what's your advice to with when you take a brief from a client I mean noticing this is then essentially not using us today so previous all the recruitment. Yeah but I think wherever possible we get a timeline. So we'll say how urgent is that? How critical, how quickly you want to recruit? Have you got slots that you can you know Blanco an afternoon or can you take Friday to doing to be used how quickly could you turn it around in finance you'll be restricted by month end so this time as a month is always a lot busier. So the less likely to be able to set aside a whole afternoon for an interview process, but you can't leave weeks between. The only time that it's ever acceptable is when you can say to a candidate. But in sending you see as an hour. But they're on hold for two weeks. Yeah. And if it's the summer holidays, you usually do have a bit more leeway because everybody's in the same boat at some stage during that six week period. But if you are leaving it one week to two weeks and then you say, Oh, we want to get somebody back, got a situation where a client is, Yeah, we're going to make a decision by the end of this week and then has come back and said, we want to do another interview. And in the meantime, that person has found another role. Yeah, and that happens. But actually when you look at the process, it's been three and a half weeks and for what is a relatively new two year old and that's not realistic, you know, and if they get lucky and the candidates are still available, it almost sets the precedent which is going to set people up for failure. Because if I were taking a brief wobble, when I take a brief on IBU, I would hope that it would be wrapped up in two weeks, few days to get CVS across, review the, see these, get the slots and then second stage interviews. You would hope that would be done within three or four working days, if not less. Okay. It's not always, always the case and some some of the processes I, I'm on working with at the moment all very long. And typically when you're working with academics, for example, there's not the rush that there is in the commercial work. And I guess it's all a bit like dating is and you go on the first day and how if it's if is a good day how quickly do you do expect to to get a second date Nelspruit segment Yeah I see it analogy I like that you know when we take in and again I want to bring out the the subject of of traveling and. It's very, very difficult for people who are up in Scotland or in Spain to come and do a face to face because so many logistical things to get around. And it brings up the question that I'm often faced with. And and that's whether clients should refund interview expenses. Which is it? It's always a topic and some people think that they should, others not. So, you know, we all know the price of fuel and have some for some people, you know, just can't afford to come to an interview. How I can't afford the train journey or the plane journey and they can a pay for that for them to to to then really get invested in it in some in the job that they might not get. Yeah. If they spent £200 shoveling all the way down to Cambridge or so, we've got to replace those fattest to the cows. Well, that's interesting. So what about the feedback then from interviews? How long should they weigh if they've had that, the screening or the first interview they get? Tell them straight away the second and have to wait for all the candidates to be interviewed. Like what? What do you think they should do? Usually people wait until they've seen everybody and somebody is a stand out and then. But be careful of setting yourself up for that. If you come back within an hour of interviewing and then say, we really want to see this pass, and then a week and a half later, etc., then books in the second stage interview. That's an issue, but also it is a bit like the dating thing. You don't be too paying because you can speak people. It almost can make you look a bit desperate if you go back to them immediately. It's great if everybody is bouncing off the walls in the interview. You do get on the crew situation already, but if you are sensing a bit of reticence from the candidate and I think people as they get more experience are quite good at not pushing across that they upset you enough with this job. They're not sure will be wary of being too keen and giving off the air of desperation and start dating again, isn't it? Where with the body boilers? Yes, but I think it should always be speedy. And actually in most interviews that I have, clients usually set the expectations all they've already done it wherever possible. But if, say they're saying a few people in one day, they'll say, right, we've got a few more interviews. We'll come back to you by Friday. And the ideal client is one that says Friday and comes back by Thursday because then they are on the receiving, but don't say by Friday and then the following Wednesday. You still waiting? Yeah. Yeah. Because if a candidate is on the fence, that's the best way to push an offense and make them think. I'm not interested. And you know, it was twofold, though, doesn't it, because. Eight out of ten times. You candidates are talking to other other people anyway. And so it's interviews are very much a two way thing. So phone call for that feedback. I actually had a, you know, screening on in TV. Definitely, yeah. I always speak to the candidates first, wherever possible. Yeah. So I can get a read on it because people tend to know when it's gone went or not. Yeah, immediately if you can't. Or the vibe they feel. Yeah they like the vibe or they're not sure exactly. Like soon as they get in their car say phone me up. Just, just let me know how it goes. And I want to get your instant reaction. And, and that felt really, really keen. That is when often go back to the client and say, just call me straight after the interview, love the team, get that feedback. Yeah. So we've talked about coaches that, we've talked about interviews. How about office then? Firstly, how do clients know what to offer? Does it depend on the candidate and their experience? They have a blanket offer. Talk me through it. They should hopefully have done some due diligence in advance so not all companies advertise the salaries attached. I understand the reasoning behind it, but when you're doing the screening process, you want to make sure that the candidate is looking for the right sort of ballpark, that you're not going to get to the stage of saying you're the best person. And they say, okay, thank you, I'd like £10,000 more than you got in your budget. So they should know what they're looking for and also suss out what they're looking for in terms of benefits and whether the benefits match what they're able to provide. And it is about doing homework. That is ultimately, in my opinion, I think you have to always know where it's going to be pitched. And it's very rare that you will actually discuss the salary in an interview process that might be dealt with by the MD. It's a small business at the end of the process, or it might be dealt with by a talent team. But it's almost an unwritten rule that you don't say in the second interview, Oh, by the way, I am looking for 45 grand. You don't do that because you would hope that everybody knows you're in the right remit in terms of the financials, and therefore, when it comes to it, it's just nuancing the finer details, whether it's just maybe about adding extra £1,000 or we had a situation yesterday where the candidate wanted more holiday entitlement than the business can offer And so they've actually increased her salary slightly to make up for the fact that she will be able to afford to take a few days unpaid without upsetting the business up applecart and be seen to be taking a weeks extra holiday than she actually is entitled to in the rest of the business isn't entitled to it. We offer a benchmarking service here as well. Don't we make. Yeah, and we do. Yes. I mean we have salary guides obviously for our different divisions and have got a number of different job and job titles in there where we've we've used data from last year to put together some salaries. If there's anything more specific that people need help with and in particular in different geographical areas, we can always add some insights into that as well. And so yeah, we do quite a bit of benchmarking so we know what the market is doing because one month to another, if you recruiting in January, you're likely to be slightly more competitive versus if you recruiting in December. And if you're saying to me that you need a manager that can sit and you want to pay 40,000 be once certain characteristics such as a qualified etc. My job is to say to you you'll get this for that. Or if you want to get that and you want everything on your wish list, you'll need to pay a bit extra. In our salary guide, it will give you a broad range, but where I recruit in Huntingdon is different to where Jim recruits in the center of Cambridge. Obviously we recruit different disciplines, but it's everything that goes with because if you have to commit an hour each way every day, people are going to take that into consideration. But people want local roles, which is why we created more rural areas. But our role is to get the clients the advice rather than just say, you'll get this person for that amount of money. There's a lot more to it than that and give them two different options. I know with scientific candidates and I would say probably eight out of ten scientific candidates on dating with covered, they are on some kind of fee. So you need some kind of ace up. Now quite often enable to be sponsored by a company. Some candidates will forgo some of their salary and because that's the most important thing to and so often where postdocs are generally coming in 45 K upwards and you could often get quite a bit cheaper if you're willing to sponsor somebody. We. You're actually able to do the same with people being able to have share options. And often that is people see see the long term benefit of that and would be happier to take a longer salary. And so we try to put that I mean, I know in the scientific guide some of that information up there. Yeah. But to help people. So if people want to download our salary guide or find out more about benchmarking, then they need to go to our website and do the beyond recruitment section. Yeah. So best way to communicate an offer then with that be a telephone call followed by an email with all the details. And how quickly should the telephone call be first and then followed by that email? Should it be the same day? If a storm creeps up, it's through us. The only recruiter and through us. I mean, as I've said before, we would have done all the work. We know what people are likely to accept and where, you know, there's that line when they absolutely wouldn't go under, say, 35 K And so normally they would communicate that to us And if they came in, saw, you know, a 30, 33 case. But thank you very much. But I know that my candidate isn't going to accept that. And so I had to have a conversation with us. And firstly, if you are going through an agency, definitely. And that's one of the good things about the agency, isn't it, as a go between, because you know what the claims range is and you know what? The candidate's not limits or the minimum that they want is. So it's good because as you as a go between to find that white balance as well how can we put people forward? We will put them forward as a minimum requirement and there's no better way to turn a candidate off and to label them. So they say, I'm looking for 35 and the client says, oh, we'll pay 32. That makes the candidate feel devalued from the outset because they've interviewed. Then they've gone through the whole process knowing that their expectations are X and then they have a Y. And sometimes going back a couple of years, clients would say, Well, they haven't got a job, so they should be happy with it. Yeah, goalposts are always paid move from both sides. And what I mean I probably spend quite a bit of time doing tons of it. If a client does lowball, as we call it, we're able to have a chat with them and say, Look, you need to look at the bigger picture here. This is going to give you this. It's going to keep you at that, it's going to give you development. And then obviously, let's look at the benefits and get them to see past the salary and let and into things like culture benefits and progression. So where a candidate would normally go, nope, not taking 33 or what if 35 were often to help them see the words which from the trees and mitigate that onslaught you know salary a little bit set timing then what do you think after you've interviewed candidates, when would you what do you set out your timeline to the candidate trying to exceed it, trying to overachieve on what you've said. So if you see somebody today and you say, we'll come back to you by Friday, if you none, that person is the one you want to offer. Offer them today. Offer them tomorrow as soon as you can and as soon as you've got the approved figure. Cool. Then don't ever just do on email that that happens more often than I care to admit and I do not like that and talk them through the offer. Be excited, show the enthusiasm to have them join in because they are still talking to it individually, not just to to a set of skills. And and follow up quickly. I've had clients who have offered verbally and then two or three weeks h have still not sent out the contract. And one candidate actually was so worried that they had been offered but hadn't received the paper and they ended up interviewing for other roles because they kept giving the client the heads up of waiting, awaiting a waiting, but got embarrassing. So they stopped asking, then secured their own interviews and then the client said the offer out and got funny with the candidate when they said Sorry, I'm going somewhere else. Yeah. Saying Do it quickly and show, just follow through on that statement of intent. We want you. This is why we want you. This is what we can offer you because then also you can in return ask that they are coming back to you quite quickly. Yeah, well, that was my next question. How long do you then wait for the candidate to accept or reject the offer? And then I have a whole flurry of questions. How do you counter offer the candidate or what do you do if they've had a counter offer and then they come back to you offer that interview notes, by the way. But that is their current company. But also my third question is, do you reject the other candidates or do you wait until the off has been accepted by the first pick? And then if it's rejected, then you offer a second the second packet. If you understand my question. Yes, it's is where our job gets really, really interesting and we're able to to look at all those different scenarios. And with our experience, we write. To advise people on on what to do and best. I think your first question is around counteroffers. Yeah. Often, you know, people say has great. Thirdly accent and then they go back and on the night said it was speak to the manager and then not stay where I am. The gist of men, another £2,000 to stay on the job sort of challenge. And then this is where things started to get really, really interesting. But we go through the counteroffer process at the beginning. State any registration of any meeting with the candidate because a good candidate is going to be kept hold of wherever possible if it's a financial thing. I think I've said this in a podcast before, actually. If it's a financial reason that somebody is looking for a job, the first thing I do is send them back to their manager and say, ask for more money because they probably are underpaid. If they are underpaid, then I would say you should go back. If they're told, no, there's no more money, fine, then we'll find you another rule. The patterns are petty that they will turn around and say, when they resigned, we'll give you the money that we suddenly have managed to find that we couldn't find for you three months ago. So counteroffers are a massive issue, and they used to be restricted to certain areas of the market in finance, but now they're across the board. But also the other option, the other sorry, the other challenge that an employer faces is offering them the 35 that they wanted. And the candidate, having interviewed a few other businesses, realizing that actually they could perhaps get up to 40,000 and they say, yeah, don't want that, then I won't touch something harmful. 40 And the client, from their perspective, needs to look at whether or not the funding that the candidate will bring to the business that fit everything is worth up because that again is where Ralph Audi really steps in, because we play that third party, we act for the client and the candidate, so we don't actually have any vested interest in one over the other. I know a lot of candidates think that we only care about clients and actually without then we have no clients Yeah. So we will play both sides. But if somebody says to me I wanted 35 and I want 60, as my job is to say to them, you might want it, but I also want $1,000,000. And with all due respect for this role, that salaries, a fair salary. Well, I'll try and get you a bit more, but I'm not going to suddenly increase your salary by 20 grand. It can sometimes become like a bidding on. I don't know about you, but sometimes I could feel a bit like an auctioneer really badly. And Anne's right, and it's covering that all for the first stage. Why that today is financial. And then when you get to that, talking to them around the interview stage and making sure that they're that prepared is okay. So this is the salary that we're looking at now. Tell me, what would you expect? What's the minimum that you would accept forecast? Okay. So they come back and offer you 38, right? You're telling me you wouldn't accept it? Oh, no, no, no, actually, I might do. And then it all fit for us in our heads. We need to know where that line is so that when the offer comes right, we don't have to kick on back and forth, back and forth. We know because we know what they're looking for. We've really ironed on that out with them before we even get to that stage. And too much negotiation could study the relationship. So before they even start, there's a bit of a black cloud hanging over that medicine. But also if it is purely based around money and they've gone back to and I also have to say to the candidate, I know when you leave, they will vote, they will give you more money. How did you feel about that? And and most people can see that counteroffers are testing to not make you stay in a business. Yeah, they go for a short period because faced with an extra £5,000 or getting an extra five to go to another business, which is quite a scary prospect, it's quite intimidating. They'll probably think, I'll stay where I am. Yeah, within three, six months I'll be looking. And anyway, there are some stats somewhere that I've got which tells you, you know, how successful counteroffers actually are, how many people end up leaving within six months and the grass is always greener as well, isn't it? But yet the legend of this story is use an agency and then you don't have to do a study. Yeah, I was just thinking that we can do it for you. Yeah. Okay. You bring in. That brings us to the end of our first part of the a perfect recruitment process journey. Is anything else you'd like to say before we say goodbye to our listeners? Know that service and thank you very much. I will catch you in part two.